Interview (Part 7): TJ Cimfel and David White (“Shut In”)

The horror movie Shut In has its world premiere this week at the Los Angeles Film Festival, screening on June 12 and June 17. Recently I had the opportunity to interview the film’s screenwriters TJ Cimfel and David White. It was a terrific conversation which I will be featuring over the course of this week.

Today in Part 7, the duo talks about their writing process and offers advice on how to go about breaking into the business:

Scott: I would be remiss if I didn’t ask you because you’ve talked about your writing process before that was very slow and cumbersome. At this point, how do you go about writing?

David: At this point, it’s pretty much, we pass it back and forth. It’s whoever’s writing on that particular day writes the next scene in the script, passes it on to the other one. We just go back and forth and add pages. I’ll write a scene, send it on to TJ. He’ll take over for the next scene. It turns out to be a scene or a sequence at a time. We just pass it back and forth.

TJ: If I write something, I’ll send it to Dave, he may do a light rewrite on what I send. Then, continue forward. You’re doing a little bit of backwards facing, but mostly forward facing. For the most part, it’s “Just keep pushing forward,” especially with that first draft when you’re just trying to get stuff down, then you can clean it up.

David: Right. We’ll get to a completed first draft, and then we’ll each do a read individually where we make extensive notes on it. That becomes our document, those notes become our document for going into the second draft. For that process, we do basically the same thing, where we pass it back and forth. We start at the beginning of the notes and if you’ve got one you can’t quite figure out, you jump to the next note.

TJ: It’s pretty organic. One of the things that cracks me up when we’re writing, especially first drafts is, I’ll have a set amount of time that I can write. I’ll write as much as I can. I might get to a point where I’m like, “Oh, wow. I’m handing this off to Dave at this point. I’m really glad I don’t have to write this next scene because I have not figured this out yet.” [laughter] He’ll write it, and he’ll send it back to me. I’ll think, “Thank God I didn’t have to write that. I would never have come up with that.”

David: That’s when writing with a partner is amazing.

TJ: Yeah.

David: Either that happens or you write something that you’re not quite satisfied with. You’re like, “I know the basics are there, but I haven’t quite cracked it.” It comes back with TJ’s rewrite and, “Oh, yeah. That was it. That was the solution. It’s done.” It’s a nice process. It’s a good one.

TJ: It’s strangely efficient for just how unplanned it is.

Scott: That’s the butterfly and puppy version, but what about the dread version where either you’ve got a scene that you’ve written and you can’t agree as to where to go, or neither of you have a creative inspiration as to what to do. What do you do with those times when it’s more problematic let’s say, in terms of the writing relationship, how do you figure those things out?

TJ: So, it feels strange to say this. I feel like both of those situations are fairly rare.

David: Yeah.

TJ: It is very uncommon that Dave and I come to an impasse in terms of a choice.

David: I think what happens sometimes is we will start off disagreeing, but one of us just feels more strongly.

TJ: Mm hmm.

David: The person who feels more strongly about that particular point is usually going to be the one to argue it well enough that they convince the other.

TJ: Yeah. We have worked together long enough to, basically, understand when someone has a good, persuasive argument. There are times, too, when it’s like, “Let’s put it in there and see how it ultimately works out,” because a lot of times you’ll do it, and you’ll come back to it. And you’ll be like, “Yeah that was fine. I don’t know why I was fighting against that.”

David: Right.

TJ: Or, you come back to it, and you’re like, “Nope, I was right all along.” [laughter]

David: Yeah. Yeah.

TJ: Neither of us has much ego in it, from that standpoint, like, we just want to write a hell of a story.

David: There are definitely points, where I feel like it just goes unresolved…

TJ: Yeah. Sure.

David: There are points, where it’s like, “OK. We can’t agree. So, let’s just move on.”

TJ: Yeah.

David: And…

TJ: And you come back to it.

David: And, like you say, as we come back to it, one of us was right.

TJ: Then, as far as the latter part of that, like when neither one of us has inspiration, I feel like we just pummel away at it.

David: [laughs] You keep thinking.

TJ: You take breaks, when you can’t do it, but, thankfully, I feel like the places where we hit that have maybe been in trying to develop a take for somebody, where it’s like, “You know what? There’s something missing from this particular story.”

It’s that we’re not cracking, and it’s not making us feel passionate. And, let’s take our cue from that. When it comes to actual scripts we’re engaged in and we’re writing, yeah, I think it’s pretty rare that we ever give up. We’re going to just keep punching at it.

David: Right. When it does happen, I feel like that’s a sign that we haven’t quite figured it out. So, that’s when we tend to go… If we’re stuck on a particular plot point…

TJ: Usually, that means the plot point is wrong. [laughs]

David: Usually that means the plot point is wrong. We haven’t figured something out. I feel like that is when we tend to get in the room together. We play some ping pong.

TJ: Literal ping pong. Not figurative ping pong.

David: And then we brainstorm. We have a larger discussion. “OK. What is this story, and how does this particular point play into it?” I think that’s partially how we end up coming to the theme of a script is that we…

TJ: Play ping pong. [laughter]

David: We tend to, at a certain point in the process, we have that larger discussion. “OK. What is this really story about? What would actually happen, if this story were really and truly happening, what would happen at this point?” We just kind of bounce it back and forth.

Scott: What do you love most about writing?

David: Finishing. [laughs] For me, it’s finishing, both on a day-to-day basis and on a script-to-script basis. I don’t know about TJ. I feel like you get more moment-to-moment pleasure out of the process. For me, I feel like I get an anxiety that builds up when I’m not writing. The act of writing…

TJ: Releases it.

David: Releases it. So, at the end of the day, when I’ve cracked something that feels right and feels real, that, to me, that feeling is probably the best and most satisfying feeling that I get in any part of my day.

TJ: I totally agree with you about the feeling when you finish something. Even just a day’s worth of work is amazing. I think that one of the things that I love the most about writing is when I get so into a story that I get caught up in the emotional moment, the emotions that the characters are experiencing.

When I start to feel them myself, that usually is a really, really good sign.

David: Yeah.

TJ: There are certainly times when I have scared the shit out of myself, just going down particularly dark paths in my mind. Of course, with a wife and a kid at home, who are my number one priority and also having a full time job, I’m usually writing late at night in the dark. So it’s easy to get scared.

But it’s also easy to get quiet and introspective. When you’re writing a really painful emotional scene, when you start to really feel that yourself, it shows that you’ve tapped into a really rich vein, and there’s truth to it. I think that’s one of the things that I really like about it, when I feel like I’m getting at an emotional truth.

Scott: Finally. This is a question I’m sure you’ll be asked increasingly as your career moves along. What advice can you offer to aspiring screenwriters about learning the craft and breaking into the business?

David: Read a ton of screenplays, a lot of screenplays. Watch a lot of movies. Write a lot, and don’t worry a whole lot about what the next steps are. Worry more about writing and getting better than how you’re going to break in.

TJ: Yes. Also, debate what breaking in really means. From our standpoint, knowing the sheer amount of aspiring screenwriters out there, I feel like we’ve accomplished so much. But as excited, and grateful, and amazing as this all feels, it still feels like we’re at the bottom of the mountain.

David: Right.

TJ: Understanding that the whole thing is a long process. If you are, as Dave said, focusing on the writing and taking your joy from that…

David: Yes, learning to find…

TJ: Yes!

David: …happiness in the process.

TJ: That is going to be the thing that keeps you going. As you start to succeed, you actually wind up starting to feel the failures in much more specific ways.

David: That’s right. “Breaking in” is a mirage. What you do is you earn the right to work hard for the next success. Through small successes, you earn the right to work harder. If you’re not finding pleasure in the process of writing, the process of creating those scripts and those stories, find something else to do.

For Part 1 of the interview, go here.

Part 2, here.

Part 3, here.

Part 4, here.

Part 5, here.

Part 6, here.

TJ and David are repped by Marc Manus.

Twitter: @dkwite, @TeaJaySee.