Interview (Part 4): Bill Holderman and Erin Simms
My in-depth conversation with the co-writers (Holderman and Simms) and director (Holderman) of the comedy Book Club.
“Four lifelong friends have their lives forever changed after reading ’50 Shades of Grey’ in their monthly book club.” That’s the logline of the Paramount comedy Book Club which opens in theaters across North America beginning Friday, May 18th.
Recently, I had an hour-long conversation with the co-writers of the movie: Erin Simms and Bill Holderman. Bill also made his directing debut with the film. Today in Part 4, Bill and Erin delve into the characters played by Candice Bergen and Mary Steenburgen in the movie Book Club:
Scott: How about Candice Bergen’s character, Sharon, who climbs back into the dating game, I think with Richard Dreyfuss?
Bill: Candice’s character, Sharon, is a federal judge. She’s been divorced for 18 years and has basically sworn off having relationships, or sex, or pretty much anything other than her group of friends and her career.
Slowly but surely, the book reignites something in her. Her friends encourage her and she gets herself back online and out in the world.
I think she’s one of those characters that, hopefully, there’s a lot of people out there that find it really daunting to go do just that, which is put yourself back out there after having an absence. I think it works out for her in a really fun and exciting way. Hopefully, that will be inspirational for people as well.
Erin: I think that a lot of women, as they get older, sadly become more and more insecure about their bodies and about the naked sexual aspect of finding someone new.
It takes so much guts to just accept that you’re not 20 anymore, but that doesn’t mean that you’re not attractive. It doesn’t mean that you’re not still interesting and that people don’t want to know you. She really has to take that leap because she’s built up this big wall that nobody would ever want to… that she’s not sexually viable anymore.
She’s also stuck in the past. She entertains herself by thinking about her ex‑husband and the drama. For her, she finally lets go. She realizes that she doesn’t even want to be with her ex‑husband anymore. She’s actually happy for him and it’s time for her to take control of her own life.
Scott: Finally, there’s Mary Steenburgen’s character, Carol, who I think hues more closely to the inspiration from the “Fifty Shades” books. Trying to add some spark into her life with Bruce, played by Craig T. Nelson.
Bill: The Mary Steenburgen character, Carol, is someone who’s been happily married for 35 years and the sexual side of the marriage, that flame has gone down if not out. Again, she gets reignited by these books and wants to reclaim that part of her relationship with her husband.
Bruce, played by Craig T. Nelson, has just retired and is going through his own existential crisis as men do at certain ages. This was a moment for them to really revisit something. The big takeaway for that relationship is it’s all about communication and needing to talk about things, but she certainly draws inspiration from the book and tries to spice things up in their relationship.
Erin: We read a lot about how retirement is one of the hardest times in a couple’s relationship because, if you don’t talk about it in advance, you could realize you’ve been together for 40 years and suddenly neither one of you have a job and you don’t agree on how you want to spend your time.
One person thinks, “OK, good. We’re going to go travel and we’re going to have this exciting lifestyle,” and the other person’s ready to finally sit down on the couch and watch every show on Netflix.
It actually breaks up a lot of marriages, so the Carol character, realizing that she still feels those feelings and still wants to have this fulfilling existence with her husband, it’s just scary to ask for that. There’s still the possibility of getting rejected as much as if you’re going out and just trying to find a new person. Carol has to realize that, “I’m going to have to ask for what I want and I’m going to live with the consequences.”
Bill: And overcome the complacency that happens in long‑term relationships and challenge the status quo that’s been developed. I think, for her and for Bruce, there’s two paths they could take. Watch the movie to see which one they end up on, but they definitely go through the rocky times of trying to bring that part of a relationship back to the forefront.
Scott: Bill, Book Club is your first feature film directing gig and this is the roster of talent you were overseeing: Diane Keaton, Jane Fonda, Candice Bergen, Mary Steenburgen, Richard Dreyfuss, Andy Garcia, Craig T. Nelson, Don Johnson, Alicia Silverstone, Wallace Shawn. Your basic star‑studded line‑up. What was that like working with these famous, even iconic actors?
Bill: It’s a dream come true. They’re icons for a reason. Their careers speak for themselves and I think it was just an incredible opportunity and one that I will forever cherish. Even just hearing you list the names I’m like… I don’t know how that happened, [laughs] truthfully.
Erin: Bill has an incredible ability to talk to people, understand people, be sensitive. He’s very intuitive and he goes on his instincts. He just has a way of connecting with people one‑on‑one. Each one of the actors demanded to meet with him before they said yes to the movie. One by one in those meetings, they realized that they could trust him. They realized how thoughtful he was being about the process, how much he understood these characters, and was going to support them. I just think he won them over one‑by‑one.
Scott: How much work did you do with the actors on the characters? Was there much give and take there?
Bill: It depends on which ones. Yes, in those first meetings and because of my background of doing re‑writes, working with actors, and fine‑tuning things specifically for actors, I really loved that part of the process. I think it’s an incredibly undervalued part and very important.
To me, with all of them, I loved to sit down and talk to them about their take on the character, or their take on the story globally and how their character fits in. Then Erin and I would go back and fine‑tune based on those collaborations. Again, it’s one of my great joys in the whole process.
Erin: We re‑wrote for all of the characters except for Candice because she called us and we said, “OK, well, the other women have notes.” She said, “I’m good. I’m ready to go. Just tell me when to show up.”
Bill: Her character was also probably the most well‑developed from the get‑go. There was good, healthy collaboration with all of them and all the actors across the board. It’s part of the process and I think it’s a part of the process that I will, hopefully, maintain on every project that we ever do because it’s great. You continue to evolve.
The reality is, these are the actors that have to go say the words. You want that to be as honest, true, and easy as you can. The more you can work with them and get them to a place where the words feel really natural and reflective of their own deep connection to their characters, the better off the process is going to be.
Erin: Yeah, but it should be mentioned, you also find yourself sometimes getting notes that you don’t agree with, and it’s a very tricky balance, because there has to be a give and take. Sometimes you have to address notes that may not make sense to you, but make sense to them. You hope for the best.
Bill: One of the things that I think’s really key is when you get notes or when you have those types of conversations, a lot of times people will try to give you the solution and sometimes that is the thing that’s sort of scary to “Ooh. That does not sound like the direction we want to go.”
I think the heart of where notes come from, what the genesis is of the note, you have to look at why that note is being given, and then go back to the drawing board of, “All right, how do we solve this that still works for us as writers and for the story, but also services the concern?”
I think sometimes people get caught in the surface of, “Well, I don’t want to do that because that note is dumb.” It may not be the right solution, but the note is coming from a place of substance. You just have to go deep enough to find the place where there’s shared connection of why that note might make sense to them and how you can satisfy it in a way that makes sense for you.
Scott: The note beneath the note.
Bill: Indeed.
Erin: Yes.
Tomorrow in Part 5, Erin and Bill reflect on what the process of making Book Club taught them in the way of screenwriting lessons.
For Part 1 of the interview, go here.
Part 2, here.
Part 3, here.
Erin and Bill are repped by WME.
Twitter: @200bill, @Erinsimms9.
