Interview (Part 4): Kate Marks
My interview with the 2020 Nicholl Fellowships in Screenwriting winner.
Kate Marks wrote the original screenplay “The Cow of Queens” which won a 2020 Nicholl Fellowship in Screenwriting. Recently, I had the opportunity to chat with Kate about her creative background, her award-winning script, the craft of screenwriting, and what winning the Nicholl Award has meant to her.
Today in Part 4 of a 6 part series to run each day through Saturday, Kate talks about the cow as an active character in her story “The Cow of Queens.”
Scott: I want to talk about the cow. I’ve written a bunch of animal projects and one thing I’ve learned is that you need to look at the world through their eyes to write them effectively and with empathy. I’m curious how you brought about your understanding of Moo Moo, the cow, how that evolved in your writing.
Kate: I always saw the cow as the trickster, the one that shakes things up and helps the characters do what they need to do. It has its eyes on Del and Sonya from the beginning, as you pointed out.
I just watched “The Muppets’ Christmas Carol” and the cow reminds me of the ghosts who help Scrooge. It’s like, “I’m going to take you on a journey that’s going to help you see what you’ve been trying to avoid.” Facing death is one of the hardest things we have to do in life and the cow is that helping hand for Sonya and Del. It takes them on a journey that leads right to the heart of what they ultimately need to do, which is accept death.
Scott: One of the notable things about the script is that it could so easily lapse into melodrama the daughter and the father dying of cancer.
The fact you’ve got this fantastical journey through Queens chasing a cow, trying to figure out what to do with it… it’s like you’ve got this built-in, pretty ridiculous narrative device which helps keep the story from falling into melodrama.
Kate: The cow is the thing that freed me from the sad hospital setting. Del and Sonya are on their way to the hospital for PET scan results when they see the cow and decide to scrap their plans for the doctor and save the cow instead. So chasing the cow literally keeps them out of the hospital and away from the melodrama. But death is part of the equation, so ultimately I can’t completely avoid the hospital.
When Sonya has that last conversation with Ralph, I’m trying to normalize death and make it less scary. Ralph deals with death every day. It’s just a normal part of his life.
Scott: You mentioned that exchange that Sonya has with Ralph, and again, these characters all do some shape-shifting. For example, Wormhole says, “I’ll take care of the cow, just bring the cow to me.” Then says, “Well, I can’t take care of the cow.”
Sonya’s mother, Becky, Sonya has a difficult relationship with the mother, because she hasn’t been there to help with the father’s health, but then at the end, Becky actually comes through not only in helping move the cow, but also in a pivotal point in terms of Del in the hospital.
Then you’ve got Ralph, the butcher, this guy who ostensibly is the antagonist of the story. He’s got what I think is the most impactful side of dialogue, actually a monologue. I’d like to read it.
Kate: Sure.
Scott: He’s talking to Sonya. “Look, I don’t like killing cows. They’re big, and they’re hard to control when they freak out, and yeah, they freak out just like you would if there was a knife pressed to your throat.
Life wants to live right up until the very end life fights to live, so it’s never simple, it’s never easy. Sometimes I get a clean slice, but sometimes it’s a hack job, and if I thought about it, I’d cry like a baby.
But you know what? I don’t think about it because at the same time, it’s normal. Those cows are going to die one way or another, with or without me, just like you and me and everything else that’s alive.”
That’s the moment where Sonya, who has been dealing with a level of anger about her father’s failing health and by extension her uncertain future, she’s expressed some anger a few times. She in that moment with Ralph, she goes to a deeper need where she starts to cry. This is where she needs to be. It’s like Ralph is a conduit…He’s like a mentor at that moment, right?
Kate: Absolutely.
Scott: Can you maybe talk about that scene and writing that dialogue?
Kate: Yes, I love that he’s a mentor. That’s such a great way of putting it because he knows death. That’s his job. Dealing with death is his job. Still it’s not easy for him. He doesn’t like it. It’s rough, and it’s messy.
I remember having this conversation with my dad before he got sick, and he always hated it when people would say, “Oh, they were ready to go.” He’s like, “Nobody wants to die. Nobody really wants to die.”’
We say all these things to make death easier but it’s hard, you can’t underestimate how hard and messy and gruesome death is, on one hand, but on the other hand, it couldn’t be more normal. It happens all the time. It happens every day. It happens to every one of us.
Ralph understands this dichotomy and he can clearly articulate it for Sonya.
He doesn’t gloss it over. He’s not trying to say, “Oh, your dad’s going to be in a better place,” or “he will be at peace.” He knows how hard it is and he validates what she’s going through, but he also offers the other side of it. Death is normal.
Scott: One of the things that’s notable about this script is that you’ve got this specter of death looming over, and it plays out, sometimes it’s up top on scenes, where your characters are literally talking about it. Then, even when they’re not, it’s playing underneath, and yet you’ve just got some really funny moments. I always look at these set pieces, and this is not a spectacle-driven movie, but per the size and scope of the story.
That cow at the pharmacy sequence, it’s like one complication after another, like a classic farce in a way, but again because you’ve got this ridiculous Don Quixote type of…I don’t mean that in a bad way… just this sort of fanciful thing, you’re able to do that. Did you ever find yourself saying there’s just too much humor or too little or the tone of it? Was that a struggle for you to find that balance point?
Kate: I think cancer is so ridiculous. There’s just something funny about the human body falling apart. It’s the comedy of failure. It’s the comedy of embarrassment. There are so many accidents with cancer and dying and losing control of your functions and it’s just my natural tendency to play into those. But definitely, as I’m writing my first drafts, things will be too much or too loud or too cluttered. There’s a lot of stuff that I end up pulling out and stripping away in the revision process in order to balance the tone.
Scott: At least you give yourself the opportunity to explore that stuff, you don’t pre-edit.
Kate: Yeah, I like to have it be kind of wild at first.
On December 3, 2020 the Nicholl ceremony included a table read featuring excerpts from each of the five winning scripts. The actors: Stephanie Beatriz (“Brooklyn Nine- Nine”), Michael Peña (“End of Watch”), Lou Diamond Phillips, (“The 33”), and Taylor Russell (“Waves”). The ceremony was hosted by Aldis Hodge (“Hidden Figures”) and directed by 2011 Nicholl fellows Burlee and Abel Vang. Here is a video of the table reads:
Tomorrow in Part 5, Kate talks about her plan to direct “The Cow of Queens” and offers some insights about how she comes up with story ideas.
For Part 1 of the interview, go here.
For Part 2, go here.
For Part 3, go here.
Kate is repped by The Kaplan Stahler Agency and The Radmin Company.
Here website: LINK.
For my interviews with every Nicholl Fellowships in Screenwriting winner since 2012, go here.
For my interviews with Black List writers, go here.
