Interview (Part 6): Sam Baron (2014 Nicholl Winner)

Sam Baron wrote the original screenplay “The Science of Love and Laughter” which won a 2014 Nicholl Fellowship in screenwriting. Sam and I had a great conversation which I will be sharing with you this week in 6 parts.

Today in Part 6, Sam gives some advice to aspiring screenwriters:

Scott: What do you think about when you’re writing a scene? Do you have specific goals in mind?

Sam: There are some great quotes that I always keep in mind. One is the David Mamet quote “Who needs what from whom, and what will happen if they don’t get it?” The other is the Alexander Mackendrick quote, “What is happening now is never as interesting as the anticipation of what may or may not happen next.” Those two things, I think about at the beginning of every single scene. And the scene is not good until you can address those two things.

Scott: The first speaks to conflict, right?

Sam: Yeah.

Scott: The other speaks to tension.

Sam: Right.

Scott: Yeah, that’s interesting. What’s your actual writing process like? Do you write every day? Are you one of those writers who do sporadic bursts? Do you work in private? Do you go to coffee shops? Do you listen to music?

Sam: All of the above, apart from listening to music. I can’t do that. But yeah, everything that you just said in various permutations. Sometimes I write alone, sometimes I co‑write with people. Sometimes I write in my bedroom. Sometimes I write in public. Sometimes I like working on pen and paper, sometimes I like working on a laptop. Usually, if I’ve been working a lot on a laptop, then I switch over to pen and paper because I get sick of the bloody laptop screen. I just try to always shake it up.

I also direct stuff as well. So I don’t write every day, because if I’m directing then I can’t really be writing. But I’ll still be on the way to set, or doing some other thing in my life, then have an idea and just send myself a little note about it on my Gmail. It happens every which way, and you just have to be a bit flexible about it.

Scott: I remember reading something where Judd Apatow, when he was directing some movie ‑‑ I’m not exactly sure which one it was ‑‑ I think he was doing 40‑Year‑Old Virgin. While the crew was setting up, he would do something similar to you. He would send emails to himself for Knocked Up, and that’s how he developed that story.

Sam: I’ve got more projects on the go now than I’ve ever had before, so you just have to be fluid about it and be able to keep throwing ideas into one melting pot whilst honing another melting pot into an actual script.

Scott: So directing. What are you doing exactly?

Sam: I’ve made a lot of short films over the years and did a lot of YouTube stuff, as we talked about earlier. Then I just did a 25‑minute short film, and the plan next is to direct “The Science of Love and Laughter.”

Scott: Are there any lessons for writing that you’ve learned through your directing?

Sam: What an interesting question. Almost certainly. I just learned a lesson the other day, which was you got to have more than one thing going on at the scene. That’s probably not a generalizable rule, but certainly, we were just doing a scene the other day on this movie. There wasn’t just enough happening in it. There’s a great quote which says, “If a scene isn’t coming into life, have your characters be broken down by the start of the road and having to change a tire whilst they’re having the same conversation”. There’s a great scene in Rachel Getting Married, where the family is having big this explosion over argument and they have to learn the dishwasher and they’re all trying to load the dishwasher. The thing that you sometimes forget when you’re writing is that the more you can give actors to do at any point in time, the more interesting it will be for them to play, especially if the activity they need to do and their scene-goal are in conflict.

Scott: It’s interesting you mention that. I call those BOBS, little Bits Of Business. The business that they’re doing and that scene you’ve mentioned from Rachel Getting Married is so great. I actually met Jenny Lumet and asked her about that scene. She said that actually happened in real life. Her father Sydney thought of himself as an expert at loading a dishwasher, so he and a guest had a competition. But, of course, in the movie, this rather humorous moment, this Bit Of Business, turns into a dramatic moment when Kym, Anne Hathaway’s character, pulls out a dish that her younger brother had made, the boy having died. That visual turns the mood instantly.

Sam: Yes. You’re right. It does.

Scott: Here’s a question I like to ask. What’s your single best excuse not to write?

Sam: That’s a good question. The best excuse is that I’m directing, but the worst excuse is “Gosh darn it, I don’t know what the hell I’m doing and I don’t want to today”.

Scott: Right.

Sam: If I go through a whole day without doing one or the other, then something’s wrong.

Scott: Conversely, what do you love most about writing?

Sam: Well, here’s another quote. George R.R. Martin said, “I don’t love writing, I love having written.” When I read that, I was like, “Ugh, so true.” There is something very satisfying about cracking a script, and there’s something very fun about the challenge of trying to crack it. But God, there’s also something absolutely miserable about the experience of not being able to crack something. It’s a very strange pursuit and I don’t know why we do it, but there’s the compulsion.

Scott: It sounds like, because you mentioned several quotes, you and I are cut from the same cloth. Because I am constantly drawn to writing quotes. Do you have any sources you use or do you just, in the general course of your life, you run across these things?

Sam: Yeah, I don’t know. I just read a lot of articles about writing. I have a document that I keep for myself, which has some great ones in it. Stuff like the great Stephen King quote, “Write with the door closed, rewrite with the door open”. Whenever I come across a good one that seems to distilled something that really speaks to me, I keep a note of it.

Scott: Finally, one last question, and maybe zero in on the specific aspect that you are a UK-based writer. What advice can you offer to aspiring writers about the learning of the craft and breaking in to the business?

Sam: Well, I guess you have to write what you love writing, because you’re always going to hate every project for a significant portion of it. But you’ve got to power through to the end, so you’ve got to love that thing.

Also, I’d like to say that no first draft is ever any good. No one is really a genius. I’m certainly not, anyway. So I think it’s about not losing hope, if people tell you that your thing is no good. Because actually, it’s just no good yet. Because whatever got you excited enough about it in the first place to try writing it, to try to bare your soul on paper, or try and make people laugh, or whatever the hell you’re trying to do, scare people, or whatever — there are other people who are going to connect to that same core idea. So it’s just about cracking the thing. I guess it’s that really. I want to encourage people to stay the course if they really love it. It’s going to take a long time and it’ll be hard, and you won’t always enjoy it, blah, blah, blah. But if that’s what you’re interested in doing, then I truly, truly believe that anyone can do it if they want to. So it’s just, it’s just about not getting disheartened, because it’s easy to.

Scott: I think you’ve just probably added your own quotes to the writing list, because that was great. I’m going to probably quote you on a couple of those things. Don’t be surprised to see yourself on Twitter.

Sam: I’ll look for that!

For Part 1 of the interview, go here.

Part 2, here.

Part 3, here.

Part 4, here.

Part 5, here.

Sam is repped in the U.K. by the Curtis Brown Agency and in the United States by 3 Arts and UTA.

Twitter: @baronifish.