GITS Q&A, Part 5: Mary Coleman (Pixar)
Today we continue with a week long exclusive interview with Mary Coleman, senior development executive at Pixar Animation Studios. In Part 5, we discuss a number of story dynamics present in Pixar movies:
SM: Another dynamic I see in Pixar movies is there is this big story, but also there’s also a small story against it. Wall-E, for example, you’ve got the backdrop of this classic hero’s journey involving interstellar space, but then there’s intimate relationship between Wall-E and Eve. Similarly with Finding Nemo, another classic hero’s journey where the Protagonist leaves their old world and ventures into this new world of adventure to rescue his son, but then there’s this smaller story of Marlin and Dory. And if the subtext of Marlin’s overprotectiveness is that he has problems trusting the world, Dory is like the perfect character to influence him because she is such a trusting figure, always living in the moment.
MC: Dory’s memory loss is a great metaphor for living in the present. When a character is fearful, it’s a combination of bad past experiences and worries about the future. A character whose flaw is being paralyzed by fear can’t live in the moment. And so you’re right, Dory is the perfect foil for that.
In Nemo you have the external stakes of rescuing the son, but the internal stakes are worked out in the relationship with Dory. He has to learn to let go so that when he does rescue his son they can have a healthy relationship. Otherwise he would fulfill the external stakes and bring his son home, but they’d still have the same conflict. The intimate story is there to resolve the internal stakes.
SM: Now that’s interesting as it reminds me of Carl Jung. He believed our psychological task as human beings, what he calls individuation, is in large part to engage and assimilate the various aspects of our psyche, even the dark, repressed impulses, what he called the shadow. And he has this theory that if we don’t acknowledge all aspects of our psyche, the universe will create circumstances to force us to do so. And I find that idea fascinating when applied to story, as a writer standing outside the story and looking at it. For example in Finding Nemo, Marlin had to lose his son…
MC: In order to regain him in a healthy way.
SM: Exactly. So back to the big story, small story dynamic, it sounds like against the larger canvas of the external stakes, you want to make sure to have a more intimate relationship of some sort that basically is where the internal stakes get played out.
MC: That’s right.
SM: I have two other story dynamics I’d like to discuss, one of which you mentioned: Sentimentality. With Toy Story, many of the toys harken back to when I was a kid. With The Incredibles which had that 60s cool spy story feel…
MC: Again it’s personal. With Toy Story, John used the toys he played with growing up. Brad loved spy movies as a kid. But then it’s also the story of a mid-life crisis.
SM: At the heart of The Incredibles, I guess you could say ‘family values,’ it’s such a loaded phrase, but the story is about a family that goes on a journey and finds their emotional focus, the husband and wife in particular. Then I’m reminded of that wonderfully poignant moment in Wall-E where Wally is watching “Hello, Dolly,” sees the couple on the screen hold hands, then he holds his own hand. I’m guessing you talk about the balance point in this area, too much, too little in terms of emotionality. But it strikes me it’s sentimentality not with the stereotypical mushy connotation…
MC: I suppose it’s semantics, the distinction between sentiment and sentimentality. Maybe what we’re unashamed of is sentiment. Sentimentality has a negative tinge, that it’s saccharine. I hope our movies aren’t saccharine, that instead they’re poignant because they’re true to the creator’s emotions.
SM: They’re dealing in honest emotions, they don’t feel manipulative, and that’s the case because they arise from the filmmaker’s own genuine life experience?
MC: Yes. It’s the old cliché about writing. Your high school creative writing teacher says, ‘Write what you know.’ That doesn’t mean you can’t imagine a fantastic world, but in terms of character, it’s coming out of your own emotional experiences.
SM: And that leads me to the last observation I have about dynamics in Pixar movies: Surprise. There seems to be a premium on this in your stories. I go back to the ending sequence in Toy Story where Woody and Buzz scramble onto the street, trying to get back to the moving van which is following the van with Andy and his family inside. There are so many twists and turns, complications, roadblocks, reversals…
MC: You’ve asked about things being conscious or not, well this an area that is very consciously constructed. We give each other feedback, ‘No, no, hold off on that information,’ or ‘plant a red herring here.’ We’re influenced by Hitchcock. His movies are so full of surprises.
SM: I thought maybe there was an animation influence like the complicated plans with Road Runner and Coyote…
MC: No, I wouldn’t say that because if you think about Road Runner, it doesn’t really build. Dropping an anvil on his head, pushing him off a cliff, it’s all fun, but it doesn’t escalate. Our movies have increasing complications. Just when your hero thinks, “Oh, I’ve overcome this,” and it’s all going to be smooth sailing from here, something even harder comes up. You don’t let them off the hook.
Again let me reiterate: Pixar, 12 movies, 12 number one hits. Doesn’t it make sense to be paying attention to what the head of the story department says about the story-crafting process?
For Part 1 of the interview, go here.
Part 2, go here.
Part 3, go here.
Part 4, go here.
Tomorrow: What Pixar looks for in screenwriters and their upcoming movie Brave.
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